2009-09-05T06:40:59  <Procyon> OK.
2009-09-05T06:41:24  <Procyon> Welcome everybody!
2009-09-05T06:41:30  *** Arrow has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-09-05T06:41:56  <Procyon> We don't have a super huge agenda today, so this meeting shouldn't take long.
2009-09-05T06:42:09  <Procyon> Just want to update everyone as to the status of things.
2009-09-05T06:42:33  <Procyon> Obviously, we're having a mini-crisis but I alerted people by voice mail, and it looks like things are on their way to getting resolved.
2009-09-05T06:43:04  <Procyon> It makes me realize that I need to have a better back up plan if something goes wrong, so that's my responsibility and an action item for me to take care of.
2009-09-05T06:43:14  <Procyon> Thanks to Prod for looking into it, as well as Dan and Matt who aren't here.
2009-09-05T06:43:37  <Procyon> The next thing is the status of ABXY LLC,
2009-09-05T06:43:48  <Procyon> I believe most of you are familiar with the name Howard Ha by now.
2009-09-05T06:43:57  <Procyon> He is very eager to begin working with us,
2009-09-05T06:44:05  <Procyon> and we're pushing the operating agreement through,
2009-09-05T06:44:18  <Procyon> so he is looking forward to working his magic, and I am very interested to see what he can do.
2009-09-05T06:44:36  <Procyon> One of his first objectives is to nail down the agreement for the purchase of GamerWiki.
2009-09-05T06:44:46  <Procyon> So with any luck, we may be owning and operating it by the end of the month.
2009-09-05T06:45:18  <Procyon> Other than that, I don't personally have a lot of development news.  But once Howard starts working with us,
2009-09-05T06:45:27  <Procyon> he assures me that a lot will happen in very little time,
2009-09-05T06:45:34  <Procyon> and I'll be sure to let everyone know about everything.
2009-09-05T06:45:46  <Procyon> Prod, do you have any notices?
2009-09-05T06:45:57  <Prod> nope
2009-09-05T06:46:16  <Prod> we're still growing quite well
2009-09-05T06:46:46  <Procyon> Yes.  I noticed we have the usual "back to school" dip
2009-09-05T06:46:52  <Procyon> We get that every year.
2009-09-05T06:46:56  <Prod> yes
2009-09-05T06:47:07  <Procyon> But, comparing our traffic from last year to this year, the same time, we're going great.
2009-09-05T06:47:33  <Procyon> Well, then I suppose we can get right to the only agenda item,
2009-09-05T06:47:44  <Procyon> MediaWiki and extension updates
2009-09-05T06:47:53  <Procyon> Prod, would you like to kick this off?
2009-09-05T06:47:58  <Prod> sure
2009-09-05T06:48:30  <Prod> I wasn't able to get the mediawiki updates in last month, but as we now have a long weekend
2009-09-05T06:48:39  <Prod> i'm going so see if i can get it in tomorrow or so
2009-09-05T06:48:58  <Prod> this should include extension updates to anything that has one, in addition to moving to the latest MW
2009-09-05T06:49:08  <Prod> which is 1.15.1
2009-09-05T06:49:35  <Prod> there are changelogs online
2009-09-05T06:49:41  <Prod> if anyone is interested in seeing what's new
2009-09-05T06:49:55  <Procyon> Any highlights worth mentioning?
2009-09-05T06:50:05  <Skizzerz> it's a new version :D
2009-09-05T06:50:14  <Prod> there's some security related fixes
2009-09-05T06:50:32  <Prod> they're change list is fairly large
2009-09-05T06:50:33  <Prod> http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/tags/REL1_15_0/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES
2009-09-05T06:50:42  <Procyon> lol
2009-09-05T06:50:51  <Prod> their *
2009-09-05T06:51:06  <Procyon> OK, well, slightly related, but slightly off-topic, has anyone noticed Wikia's new rich-text editor?
2009-09-05T06:51:13  <najzere> Yeah, it sucks.
2009-09-05T06:51:18  <najzere> Please PLEASE don't implement it.
2009-09-05T06:51:21  <Rocky> yeah, don't use it though
2009-09-05T06:51:26  <Procyon> lol
2009-09-05T06:51:35  <najzere> It leaves all sorts of weird cruft behind.
2009-09-05T06:51:43  <Procyon> ah
2009-09-05T06:51:47  <Skizzerz> Prod: wrong link
2009-09-05T06:51:54  <Skizzerz> http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/branches/REL1_15/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES
2009-09-05T06:52:02  <Procyon> I was wondering if anyone else noticed it.  Garrett brought it to my attention.
2009-09-05T06:52:05  <Skizzerz> the tags is for a specific version, in that case 1.15.0
2009-09-05T06:52:24  <Prod> the front page link sent me there :P
2009-09-05T06:52:37  <Skizzerz> Procyon: FCKeditor doesn't support templates
2009-09-05T06:52:42  <Skizzerz> aka it would suck on our site
2009-09-05T06:52:55  <Procyon> Skiz: Good point.
2009-09-05T06:53:29  <Procyon> I wasn't going to suggest we implement it (even if we could... probably proprietary), just wondering if people noticed it, and what they thought about it.
2009-09-05T06:53:35  <Procyon> Consensus seems pretty clear.
2009-09-05T06:53:46  <najzere> Wiki markup is already dumb enough.
2009-09-05T06:53:51  <Procyon> lol
2009-09-05T06:54:10  <Skizzerz> it's open source, it just stinks
2009-09-05T06:54:17  <Procyon> Prod: Anything else about the extensions?
2009-09-05T06:54:24  <Procyon> Or does anyone have any questions concerning them?
2009-09-05T06:54:29  <najzere> One thing they do have that's good is auto category thing at the bottom of the page.
2009-09-05T06:54:40  <Prod> i was about to mention that :)
2009-09-05T06:55:16  <Prod> that was one interesting extension they have
2009-09-05T06:55:21  <Prod> but i'm not sure if it would be good for us
2009-09-05T06:55:25  <Prod> or just make a mess of things
2009-09-05T06:55:34  <najzere> Need to disable it for subpages.
2009-09-05T06:56:00  <najzere> It's really only good if you know what category you want already.
2009-09-05T06:56:11  <najzere> It autofills what you start and makes sure it's typed correctly.
2009-09-05T06:56:26  <najzere> People that don't know what category use wouldn't be helped by a huge list of all our cats.
2009-09-05T06:56:36  <Sigma7> Said extension can be modified to adapt towards autofilling the header/footer navs as well.
2009-09-05T06:56:58  <Procyon> I think the work we've done to add cats from the Infobox has been very helpful.
2009-09-05T06:57:07  <najzere> Like a list of all the subpages of the guide?
2009-09-05T06:57:24  <Skizzerz> najzere: we already have that
2009-09-05T06:57:39  <najzere> That was meant for Sigma.
2009-09-05T06:58:02  <najzere> Just wondering how Footer Navs would be helped.
2009-09-05T06:58:30  <Skizzerz> personally, I'm against installing wikia extensions
2009-09-05T06:58:39  <Procyon> Does anyone have any general comments or suggestions they would like to make?
2009-09-05T06:58:42  <Skizzerz> for reasons I don't want to delve into on a publicly logged channel
2009-09-05T06:58:48  <Prod> :D
2009-09-05T06:58:56  <najzere> I do.
2009-09-05T06:58:58  <Prod> there's a few other things that need to be changed on the backend though
2009-09-05T06:59:01  <najzere> Briefly.
2009-09-05T06:59:11  <Procyon> Naj: go for it.
2009-09-05T06:59:18  <najzere> Prod, you have more?
2009-09-05T07:00:06  <Prod> go ahea
2009-09-05T07:00:07  <Prod> d
2009-09-05T07:00:19  <najzere> Okay, well I just wanted to mention that some policy stuff has changed/been added.
2009-09-05T07:00:26  <najzere> So if you get a chance, take a look and comment on it.
2009-09-05T07:00:35  <Prod> for example?
2009-09-05T07:00:38  <najzere> Specifically: Scope, Languages, External Links
2009-09-05T07:00:58  <Procyon> Yeah, good job by you, NMH, and whoever else contributed to that.
2009-09-05T07:01:12  <najzere> Also, collapsible elements discussion on the staff lounge is still open.
2009-09-05T07:01:19  <Procyon> This all started when NMH wanted to add a game that seemed slightly out of scope.
2009-09-05T07:01:25  <najzere> And is there any word on MultipleExtensions?
2009-09-05T07:01:33  <Prod> o.O
2009-09-05T07:01:34  <Procyon> It was a worthwhile endeavor.
2009-09-05T07:01:39  <najzere> MultipleUpload*
2009-09-05T07:01:40  <najzere> Haha
2009-09-05T07:01:47  <Prod> that'll be at the same time as the mw upgrade
2009-09-05T07:01:54  <Prod> sometimes these extensions aren't backwards compatible
2009-09-05T07:01:57  * Procyon has gotten so used to living without MultiUp :P
2009-09-05T07:02:03  <najzere> Heh.
2009-09-05T07:02:07  <Prod> it's like riding a bike ;)
2009-09-05T07:02:17  <Skizzerz> MultiUpload is the training wheels?
2009-09-05T07:02:24  <najzere> Yeah, Scope is probably the biggest one and has been severely loosened up.
2009-09-05T07:02:31  <najzere> In regards to notability.
2009-09-05T07:02:38  <Skizzerz> Prod: btw, install Gadgets while you're at it
2009-09-05T07:02:40  <najzere> So take a look at it and make changes where needed or discuss them.
2009-09-05T07:02:50  <Procyon> Skiz: What are some good Gadgets?
2009-09-05T07:03:12  <Skizzerz> well, we could copy a few from wikipedia, but I had some ideas for others that haven't been written yet
2009-09-05T07:03:12  <Prod> (Skizzerz): elaborate?
2009-09-05T07:03:38  <Skizzerz> Gadgets is an extension that allows sysops to add javascript scripts to be enabled and disabled per-user via Preferences
2009-09-05T07:03:49  <Prod> ah yes
2009-09-05T07:04:01  <Procyon> Skiz: Which ones do you like?
2009-09-05T07:04:02  <Skizzerz> so instead of someone having to copy/paste a script into BlueCloud.js, they can just toggle a checkbox in Preferences
2009-09-05T07:04:14  <Prod> if we enable that
2009-09-05T07:04:23  <Prod> there has to be an approval process before new scripts are added
2009-09-05T07:04:45  <Skizzerz> of course
2009-09-05T07:04:58  <Procyon> o_O
2009-09-05T07:05:11  <Skizzerz> as a start I was thinking about the script that adds an edit section link for the top section
2009-09-05T07:05:17  * Procyon wonders what some of the better Gadgets are...
2009-09-05T07:05:21  <Skizzerz> a lot of people would benefit from that one
2009-09-05T07:05:33  <Prod> yea, as long as it looks nice :)
2009-09-05T07:05:37  <Procyon> ooooh.  I see.
2009-09-05T07:06:05  <Procyon> Anything else?
2009-09-05T07:06:39  <Procyon> Skiz?
2009-09-05T07:07:05  <Procyon> er... OK
2009-09-05T07:07:10  <Procyon> Guess not.
2009-09-05T07:07:23  <Skizzerz> hmm, sorry
2009-09-05T07:07:25  <Procyon> Does anyone else have any concerns or topics they would like to raise?
2009-09-05T07:07:28  <Skizzerz> was preoccupied with other things
2009-09-05T07:07:34  <Procyon> no problem ^_^
2009-09-05T07:07:36  <Skizzerz> but I don't have any other concerns I can think of at the moment
2009-09-05T07:07:47  <Procyon> Alright.
2009-09-05T07:07:57  <Procyon> Well, then like I said, this was a considerably short meeting :)
2009-09-05T07:08:04  <Procyon> But well attended, and I really appreciate it.
2009-09-05T07:08:09  <Procyon> Summer's nearly over,
2009-09-05T07:08:14  <Procyon> School's back in...
2009-09-05T07:08:28  <Procyon> And some developments should start taking place.
2009-09-05T07:08:39  <Prod> as a breif note
2009-09-05T07:08:41  <Procyon> I will keep everyone informed as things trickle in.
2009-09-05T07:08:48  <Prod> we exceeded 1M pageviews a day last month
2009-09-05T07:08:56  <Prod> per week *
2009-09-05T07:09:12  <Procyon> nice! ^_^
2009-09-05T07:09:29  <najzere> 900,000 MapleStory views, sweet!
2009-09-05T07:09:38  <Procyon> lmao...
2009-09-05T07:09:39  <Procyon> sadly
2009-09-05T07:09:52  <Procyon> you may be right.
2009-09-05T07:10:10  <Prod> maplestory is a large percentage of our traffic
2009-09-05T07:10:13  <najzere> Any update on Teddy's new look for the site?
2009-09-05T07:10:14  <Procyon> But that's why it's important to build up content while MS still brings us a lot of traffic.
2009-09-05T07:10:26  <Procyon> Whenever the day comes that MS goes the way of the dinosaur,
2009-09-05T07:10:28  <Skizzerz> how is that sad? It means that our guide is like the definitive source for MapleStory info, and there are a LOT of MS fansites out there with guides
2009-09-05T07:10:44  <Procyon> Hopefully we'll have built up a significant presence that the loss of the MS traffic won't be too noticeable.
2009-09-05T07:10:50  <Procyon> Naj: no, not yet.
2009-09-05T07:10:57  <Prod> even right now, we'd still be doing ok without MS traffic
2009-09-05T07:11:04  <Procyon> Once the negotiations for GW reopen,
2009-09-05T07:11:08  <Prod> we have started to show we have good info on other guides
2009-09-05T07:11:19  <Procyon> I will encourage him to present some concepts to us.
2009-09-05T07:11:20  <najzere> Is there another game like that?
2009-09-05T07:11:31  <najzere> Maybe we could start another huge guide for even more traffic.
2009-09-05T07:11:32  <Prod> mount & blade is our 2nd most popular
2009-09-05T07:11:51  <Procyon> There are plenty of MMOs... the trick is encouraging a community to choose SW as their point of information.
2009-09-05T07:12:10  <Procyon> MMO players seem to prefer an isolated wiki about their game.
2009-09-05T07:12:11  <Prod> people like our ragnarok guide
2009-09-05T07:12:20  <Prod> but it's unforunately a dead game, so not much traffic
2009-09-05T07:12:31  <Procyon> That's why I started to consider if it would be worth giving MMOs their own SW URL.
2009-09-05T07:12:35  <Prod> we've got a very good Exteel guide, but that game is also fairly small
2009-09-05T07:13:00  <Procyon> I.E. Would a Conan MMO player prefer visiting conan.strategywiki.org instead of strategywiki.org/wiki/conan
2009-09-05T07:13:20  <Procyon> It's so stupid, but that's how some people think.
2009-09-05T07:13:29  <najzere> Could they have their own look?
2009-09-05T07:13:39  <najzere> Like black background or whatever?
2009-09-05T07:14:00  <Procyon> I don't see why we couldn't skin them differently, but it wouldn't be user generated.  We'd have to ask Teddy to do something for each site.
2009-09-05T07:14:03  <Procyon> I don't think he would mind,
2009-09-05T07:14:12  <najzere> Then we'd be like Wikia
2009-09-05T07:14:13  <Procyon> but then how do you alert users to that fact?
2009-09-05T07:14:14  <Rocky> Would the developers have to make a new subdomain every time a new MMO is added?
2009-09-05T07:14:29  <Procyon> Rocky: Unfortunately, essentially yes.
2009-09-05T07:14:49  <najzere> Wow, you're talking about a radically different approach here.
2009-09-05T07:14:51  <Procyon> Which is the undesirable bit...
2009-09-05T07:14:55  <Procyon> Yeah...
2009-09-05T07:15:00  <Procyon> But the question is,
2009-09-05T07:15:02  <najzere> If it works though...
2009-09-05T07:15:03  <najzere> :)
2009-09-05T07:15:17  <Procyon> would this radically different approach be enough to encourage more users to visit us for an MMO?
2009-09-05T07:15:19  <Procyon> It's weird,
2009-09-05T07:15:21  <Procyon> because
2009-09-05T07:15:42  <Procyon> no one would expect to visit Batman.Arkham.Assylum.straregywiki.org.
2009-09-05T07:15:51  <Procyon> But MMO players feel their game is a world unto itself.
2009-09-05T07:15:57  <Procyon> Look at FFXIcyclopedia
2009-09-05T07:16:20  <najzere> How much of the success of MS relies on having its own admin?
2009-09-05T07:16:24  <Procyon> There's no reason why we couldn't host that information (and it's a shitload)
2009-09-05T07:16:35  <Procyon> That's a very good point too.
2009-09-05T07:16:44  <Skizzerz> well, users finding out about the subdomain would largely be through search engines
2009-09-05T07:16:45  <Procyon> Isaac is crucial to keeping that content clean.
2009-09-05T07:17:03  <najzere> Subdomaining might make guide-specific admin a possibility.
2009-09-05T07:17:14  <Procyon> I see what you mean.
2009-09-05T07:17:31  <Procyon> I will pitch the concept to Howard, and see what he thinks.
2009-09-05T07:17:39  <Rocky> could we make strategywiki.org/wiki/conan a redirect?
2009-09-05T07:17:54  <najzere> We'd have to I imagine.
2009-09-05T07:18:10  <Procyon> That's a possibility, but then how would search engines find it?
2009-09-05T07:18:13  <Prod> unless the wiki can stand on it's own
2009-09-05T07:18:23  <Prod> we lose out on having everything in one place
2009-09-05T07:18:39  <Prod> and we lose out on people finding other games they like on the site
2009-09-05T07:18:44  <Procyon> And that is a big drawbrack.
2009-09-05T07:19:05  <najzere> I'm sure we could put a big strategywiki linked image at the top of any sub-wikis.
2009-09-05T07:19:09  <Procyon> It's basically "our psychology" of being all-inclusive vs. "their psychology" of being stand-alone.
2009-09-05T07:19:22  <Prod> (najzere): that would still have the same losses
2009-09-05T07:19:27  <Skizzerz> najzere: there are only two ways to have guide specific admins: totally seperate wikis for each subdomain, or an extension
2009-09-05T07:19:36  <Procyon> Maple Story users obviously don't mind sharing...
2009-09-05T07:19:58  <Procyon> The other possibility is simply to register conan.strategywiki.org and just redirect it to strategywiki.org/wiki/conan
2009-09-05T07:20:17  <najzere> Maybe we're overestimating how badly stand-alone is desired.
2009-09-05T07:20:18  <Procyon> Not sure how much that would help, but once they're in, they're in, who cares how they got there...
2009-09-05T07:20:24  <najzere> If the guide's really good...
2009-09-05T07:20:27  <Procyon> Naj: Admittedly, I may be.
2009-09-05T07:20:44  <najzere> Well, at lease MS proves it CAN work the way we do it.
2009-09-05T07:21:03  <najzere> least*
2009-09-05T07:21:08  <Procyon> Good point ^_^
2009-09-05T07:21:37  <Procyon> I think a lot of what MMO players prefer about the stand-alone approach is simply the "window dressing"
2009-09-05T07:22:01  <Procyon> They'd rather view info surrounded by imagery from their favorite MMO than a generic wiki decoration.
2009-09-05T07:22:03  *** Prod has quit IRC
2009-09-05T07:22:07  <Procyon> Aww :(
2009-09-05T07:22:14  <najzere> He's disgusted by this topic.
2009-09-05T07:22:22  *** Prod has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-09-05T07:22:27  <Procyon> welcome back Prod
2009-09-05T07:22:41  *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Prod Prod
2009-09-05T07:22:44  <Procyon> Alright, well, I don't have anything else.
2009-09-05T07:23:04  <Skizzerz> I do
2009-09-05T07:23:17  <Skizzerz> Who here does NOT have an alexa toolbar installed on their browser?
2009-09-05T07:23:22  <Sigma7> Me.
2009-09-05T07:23:26  * najzere puts up his hand.
2009-09-05T07:23:27  <Rocky> me
2009-09-05T07:23:27  <Skizzerz> if you don't, get one :)
2009-09-05T07:23:38  <Prod> there are firefox extensions as well
2009-09-05T07:23:43  <najzere> What's it do?
2009-09-05T07:23:44  <Procyon> Oh wow... I had that, then I reinstalled and I forgot.
2009-09-05T07:23:46  <Skizzerz> by having the toolbar, you are creating more of an impact on the alexa ranking for our site
2009-09-05T07:24:12  <Procyon> Just out of curiosity, is there any such similar extension for Google?
2009-09-05T07:24:24  <Prod> pagerank doesn't count views
2009-09-05T07:24:29  <Prod> it only counts links
2009-09-05T07:24:41  <Skizzerz> http://www.alexa.com/toolbar for the toolbar download
2009-09-05T07:25:01  <Procyon> hmm...
2009-09-05T07:25:33  <Prod> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/321
2009-09-05T07:25:38  <Prod> that's the firefox extension
2009-09-05T07:25:41  <Procyon> Good point Skiz, thanks for raising that.
2009-09-05T07:25:42  <Skizzerz> in the past 3 months, our alexa rank increased by almost 3000
2009-09-05T07:26:00  <Skizzerz> by having more of our regulars get the toolbar, we can increase that even more
2009-09-05T07:26:10  <Procyon> Prod: Are you sure?
2009-09-05T07:26:16  <Prod> yes
2009-09-05T07:26:17  <Procyon> That extension is not purely Alexa.
2009-09-05T07:26:18  <Procyon> ok
2009-09-05T07:26:28  <Prod> correct
2009-09-05T07:26:32  <Prod> it also has compete.com
2009-09-05T07:28:06  <Procyon> Any test SW recently?
2009-09-05T07:28:12  <najzere> I just did.
2009-09-05T07:28:16  <najzere> Not loading.
2009-09-05T07:28:40  <Procyon> :/ same
2009-09-05T07:28:50  <Procyon> OK, we can discuss this immediate issue on #SW
2009-09-05T07:29:04  <Procyon> In the mean time, I think we can bring this meeting to a close unless anyone else has any last comments.
2009-09-05T07:29:09  <najzere> Thanks for the meeting Procyon!
2009-09-05T07:30:04  <Procyon> Thanks for coming!
2009-09-05T07:30:25  <Procyon> Have a great weekend everyone.  Enjoy the holiday if you celebrate.